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post #1 of 2 (permalink) Old 04-16-2013, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
1/4 Throttle
Join Date: Apr 2013
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Angry Wolf Brothers Motorsports (WBM Engines) - Terrible Experience Engine Rebuild

Wolf Brothers Motorsports (WBM Engines) - Terrible Experience

I have been reading this forum for a while because my brother has had a Rhino for a few years but this is my first time posting. I feel that it is very important for everyone to know about my experience so they don't have to go through the same thing.

Background- I have had four wheelers and Jeeps for about 9 years now and I perform about 99% of the work on them myself. I am no expert but I am fairly competent with these things by now and can usually work through any problems. In November of last year having been out of college for about 6 months, I bought a 2007 Rhino 660 (1240 miles; 540 hours). I performed some routine maintenance on it and took it out for the first ride a couple weeks later. After half day of riding, while coming up a small rocky hill I heard a pop and the Rhino wouldnít go anymore. We towed it home and after some research and tearing apart found out that it was a broken middle drive gear.

I then had to decide whether to fix the middle drive gear (and entire engine/transmission) myself or find someone to do it for me. I researched all the parts and what I would need to do and found thought that I could fix it for around $1000-$1500 but because I am working out of town it would take me months to get riding again. I then researched places to fix it for me and thatís when I came to Wolf Brothers Motorsports (WBM Engines). My brother found out about them on a forum and called to find out more info. He was told they basically replace everything inside the engine case and you will have a fresh motor (may or may not be your original) for about $2000 and it will take about a week. After hearing this and weighing my options I decided this was my best choice because of how soon I could be riding again. I then had my dad call to find out where they were located and get more information because I was thinking about having him drop the motor off to save time. He was told we might be able to drop it off and take a rebuilt motor with us when we leave the same day and it would cost just over $2000. By this time I was committed but called to get details. This time I found out that shipping was included in the cost so there was no need to drop it off, but the price I was given was $2500-2800. By this point I was already planning a riding trip in a month and although a little mad about the price decided I would go ahead with it. I then called one last time to set up shipping. This time I was told $2600-$3000 but still one week turnaround time. Again I was mad about the price but set up the shipping anyway.

To recap, we were told $2000 and 1 week or possibly same day starting out but 4 phone calls and 1 week later we were up to $2500-3000 and 1 week.

I had my dad and brother package the motor since I was out of town and as I was told to do by WBM we left it in the driveway in containers on a crate to be picked up. I told Chris (the one I talked with every time) at WBM that it would be down a driveway that was slopped and behind my house and he said it was OK. I also told him that the motor was in pieces because we had taken it apart which he also OKed. Also, I wasnít told originally what parts we were supposed to keep (clutch assembly) so we packaged everything. I told Chris this also and he said that was fine and they would return any parts that they do not work with. I had my dad and brother package it up and set it out late Wed night because I was told if I call first thing Thurs I could have it picked up that day. So I called Thursday when WBM opened and was told I would receive a call back later that day to confirm shipping. When I did not receive a call back by late Thursday I called back and was told it would be picked up Friday and someone would call Friday to confirm pickup. Again Friday I received no call so I called back and was told it would be picked up that afternoon and was emailed shipping information. Later that afternoon I received a call from a Conway Freight driver saying that he could not fit his truck down my street (It is a normal neighborhood street that garbage trucks go up and down fine and I told Chris that it would be at my house not a business). He asked if I could bring it to the top of the street. Since I wasnít there I called my dad who was nearby and he said he would get home and see if he could help. I called Conway back and the operator told me that the driver had already left and would not go back. I told the operator that I had someone there to help so she said she would talk to the driver and call me back. She called back and said that the driver wanted me to meet him in a Sam's Club parking lot (about 5 miles away) with the motor. I about lost it at this point but told her I could have someone bring it to the top of the street and that was it. After a few minutes she agreed and said the driver would be back. I then had to get my dad, who canít lift a rhino engine on a pallet by himself, to get it to the top of the street. He cleverly hooked it to his truck with a tow rope and drug it to the top of the street. Finally Conway came back and the motor was on its way.

You may be able to see the beginning of my frustration by now, but this is just the beginning. To recap, I confirmed that I wanted the engine rebuilt on Jan 30 and it was picked up Friday Feb 1st. After the initial price hike and pickup debacle, I was just ready to get my motor back in a week and get riding. I figured I would give them the benefit of day shipping each way (from Cincinnati OH to Indiana) added on to their 1 week turnaround (which I was continually told) and that I would have it back mid week around the 12th or 13th.

I was supposed to get a call when they received the motor and looked at it (it was already apart) so Monday afternoon when I had not gotten a call, I called them (you will see this becoming a trend) and was told they didnít know what was going on but somehow it was not in yet. Late Tuesday Feb 5, again no call so I called and was told that it was in and it would be done in 1 week for $2875. At this point even with the high price tag (to their credit when I sent the motor I was informed it could cost up to $3000 so I will try not to complain about price anymore) I just wanted my motor fixed and back so I could ride. I planned to get the motor back and put it in and ride/break it in by Feb 16th.

This is only the begining of my horrible experience. Continued . . .

2007 Rhino 660; 2003 Honda Foreman ES; 96 Jeep Cherokee (off Road only) custom lift, 31" MT's and welded rear.
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post #2 of 2 (permalink) Old 04-16-2013, 07:29 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Apr 2013
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Thumbs down Continued

Tues Feb 12th, 1 week later, I had not received a call so I called them. I was told that I would have the motor by the end of the week, so I did not change my plans and even planned to go on a trip and ride the weekend after break in weekend. Thurs Feb 14th again no call so I called and was told I would have it by early the next week. My plans for that weekend were now shot. Tuesday Feb 19th again no call so I called and was told I would have it by the end of the week, again I kept my plans to travel and ride that weekend. Thurs Feb 21 again no call so I called and was told I would have the motor on Mon Feb 25. Again I had to bail on my friends and cancel a trip. Mon Feb 25 again no call (each time I say that I did not receive a call I was told that I would and thatís why I called them) I was told by Chris that he guarantees I will have it Wed Feb 27th. What do you know, Feb 27th, still no motor. I forgot to mention that because of the pickup fiasco I decided to have the motor shipped to the office that my brother works at so we know someone would be there. To get the motor he had to drive his truck to work but he normally drives a small car to save on gas so every day that it did not show up I got yelled at by him on top of everything else. Because it was getting shipped to his office I specifically asked Chris if I would get information about when it would show up so that he could be ready and again Chris told me yes, I would be emailed the information as soon as he had it. So of course the motor finally arrives Thurs Feb 28th and I was never sent shipping information so my brother was not waiting for it and it was an ordeal for the driver to find him and get him the motor.

Well 28 days after we sent the motor out (30 days after confirming that I wanted it done) we had the motor back. Donít cheer yet, we were not close to being in the clear yet.

Since I was out of town I had my brother open the box and check to see if everything looked OK. After pulling the motor out and laying out the parts for the clutch assembly which were shipped loose, he found that we were missing one of the main nuts that hold the clutch pulleys on and all of the bolts to hold the plastic cover over the clutch along with the dowel pins that align the metal cage that hold the outside bearing. After laying all of the parts we did have out and researching Friday morning we found out most of what we were missing. Again I had planned to get the motor in the rhino on Friday evening and ride Saturday so this was a problem. I called WBM and told by Chris that they inventory every part they receive so they couldnít have missed anything. I asked to speak with a manager and was told someone would call me back. I spent all morning at work trying to find part numbers for everything we were missing and calling every Yamaha dealer or ATV shop in the city I was working in and my home town. Between me driving around for an hour on my lunch break and my dad driving to two places we rounded up some of the parts we needed. When I got home that evening we put together what we could and came up with more bolts we were missing and after a trip to Lowes were able to come up with the bolts we needed. We finally had the motor assembled and put it back in the rhino.

The moment of truth, after all of this hell that I had gone through would this moment of starting the rhino take away some of the frustration and remind me why I bought the thing in the first place? Of course not. We immediately noticed that the high temperature light was on even though we had just started it. Through some testing with a meter and online research we found out that there are 2 different sensors and we must have been given the wrong one. Next after letting the engine run for about 1 whole minute, we found that antifreeze was leaking from a connection at the top of the engine. By this point it was past midnight and we knew that we couldnít get everything fixed in time to ride in the morning so once again I had to call off a trip with friends. That night I went ahead and took apart the connection that was leaking antifreeze and found that there was no gasket but only sealant. I woke up the next morning and called all of the shops in the city again to track down the gasket and sensor but was only lucky enough to find the gasket. After buying the gasket and installing it, the leak was fixed and the engine seemed to run OK but I couldnít chance letting it run with a non working high temp sensor. Again my weekend was ruined. The next week, I finally got in touch with a manager at WBM (Mike) and I basically explained to him everything that I wrote above. He of course apologized immediately and said he would have a talk with Chris about his communication skills. This wouldnít solve my problems or the extra money I spent. I explained to Mike that he needed to get me the correct sensor and get me back the money I spent on lost parts and the gasket that they somehow left out as a start and I hoped that I would receive some sort of refund as well. He told me he would get a tech to call me about the sensor and we would talk about the money for parts later and if I need anything from them in the future I can get a discount (WHAT?!?!?! why would I go back to them, and I hope my engine doesnít need rebuilding again). A tech from WBM called me a day later or so and I explained to him the problem and that I had researched online including this forum and found that there are two sensors that work opposite of each other and that they must have given me the wrong one. This tech told me that I would have to get him ohms readings through the sensor when not running and when running and when at operating temperature. I told him that it is an overheating sensor attached to a light and it is not supposed to be on unless the engine is too hot and it just makes or breaks ground and after becoming very defensive and telling me that I donít know how these things work he said he would call me back. What do you know an hour later he calls back and says there are two different sensors and they look exactly the same and he has no way of telling them apart in the his shop so there may have been a mix-up and I will get the other sensor in a few days. After talking with the tech, I was gone for two weeks on a vacation so I didnít get to try the sensor until a few weeks later. When I finally put it on everything worked fine. I looked at the instructions from WBM for break in procedures and it just says break in properly, so again I did some research and went for an easy day riding. So far everything is working good now and I am reminded why I bought it in the first place.

So this brings me to last week when I finally got time after catching up at work to call back and find out about getting money for parts and a refund. Of course I when I asked for a manager I was told I would get a call back and a day later Mike called and had no clue what I needed (he forgot all about me already) so I reminded him of the horror story above. He told me to list all of the parts that I had to purchase and how much they were. Being a month and a half later I could only remember some of the bolts but told him it was around $40-$50 and that doesnít include my time away from work or driving to a total of about 6 different stores. (I just remembered that I forgot about the gasket which was like $10) He told me he would get with his parts guys to price out the parts I bought and get back with me. SERIOUSLY?!?!? after all this youíre going to price the bolts out when I canít even remember how many of each I bought or which ones. I told the guy that it was around $40-$50 being honest and even if I was lying why would he not just say OK and send me $50. But yea we now know this is not how this place works. They want every cent and will provide no customer service for it. So a day later he calls and says he priced it to be $40 exactly. Again, REALLY?!?!?! Exactly the lower of the two numbers I said? So I told him that will do for the parts and asked if he could tell me or send me a breakdown or list of what was actually done to the motor (what parts are new etc.) for future reference. Of course I didnít get an OK no problem, he said that that is company only information and he cannot share that with me. So now I have a motor that I paid too much for and donít even know exactly what was done to it. Finally I waited to see what he would say about a refund or apologize again but no he says goodbye. So here I am, there is nothing I can do to get any money back from Wolf Brothers Motorsports so all I can do is tell my story and hope that it does not happen to anyone else.

To sum up this experience and why it bothers me: I finally decided to just do it the "right way" and have a "professional" fix my rhino because I have a job and not enough time now and the "right way" blew up in my face. I spend $2875 which is a hell of allot of money for me and I get treated like shit. I understand that everyone gets busy in business, I go through it every day, I push back deadline and whatnot but the key is communication. If I would have been told the truth as soon as it was known that the process was being delayed, or went in to this knowing it would take a month not a week, I would feel a little better about the whole thing, but no they lack any communication skills at all and have given me a product that I am now unsure of (really if they forgot or just didnít put a gasket on an antifreeze connection what else did that forgot to or not do.) I am completely disgusted with this company and they way they do business and I hope no one ever has to go through what I did with them again. If I would have stuck to what I have done in the past and not believed the lies from WBM, I would have been riding sooner and saved a ton of money.

2007 Rhino 660; 2003 Honda Foreman ES; 96 Jeep Cherokee (off Road only) custom lift, 31" MT's and welded rear.
kochkv is offline  
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